[OmniOS-discuss] How much would a professionally maintained OmniOS be worth to you ?

Wed Apr 26 21:09:56 UTC 2017

Sorry this is so long...Just some random ramblings..

I will also add, over the years I have had a number of opportunities to 
sell omni support.. The pricing on it is just way too high. If it were 
in 500 to 1.5k it would be much easier to advise my customers. Actually 
for a few of my customers I have told them there is no reason to buy 
support for omni because Dan is so good at community support. (Sorry Dan)

I actually offer openzfs support contracts at 600-2400 depending on 
size.. support only for zfs.. that seems to be a responsible price for 
an smb, although they aren't knocking down my door at that price.

Every omni zfs install I have worked with has been omni + napp-it. In 
the last 5 years that has only been a couple dozen. Not sure how many of 
them ended up buying support

In OS support you look at ubuntu(150-1.5k) and rhel are in the sub 1k 
per server range. When you compare with some of the other openzfs based 
tools, napp-it is great at like $350, but nexenta, osnexus, cloudbyte, 
all are priced per raw TB(at least they were last i looked).. And the 
prices are very high, those products have lots of vc money and tons of 
marketing/sales available.. cloudbyte was $800 a TB last I looked... You 
can get oracle solaris for like 1k, but you might as well just take that 
1000 out of your wallet and throw it on the ground because they will 
always blame you for the problem:) The primary value of omni/illumos is 
the mature fc and iscsi, which should drive higher pricing.

You can get nas4free or freenas for $0 with community only support 
options(except me :)) The numbers for freenas are at about .5 million 
installed. Problem with both of those is that once you go in you can 
never come back(no cross platform export/import) The thing I find crazy 
about these 2 communities is that people are just fine with this level 
of support. And then there is the thing that always happens when there 
is a single company/entity driving a project, they can go crazy.

For years now I have wanted to start an openzfs users community. My 
experience is that running zfs it is mostly the same cross platform. The 
developers have always had a community, but the users are fractured. 
Developers and end users don't always have the same requirements. The 
best part of zfs is that once it is setup, it just runs. It looks like 
datto is trying to do this. With oracle finally shutting down it's 
zfs-discuss, maybe it's time..

If anyone is interested in helping start an openzfs users 
group(globally) let me know off list. It still amazes me how little 
people and even the companies that sell systems running zfs actually 
know about how to run zfs.

I would like to huddle up around one of the distro's. Either omni or OI. 
I like OI cuz I do like a gui(getting older)...I would have participated 
in community development around omni if i had known. I also thought OI 
had died, but I guess I was wrong.

Community doesn't ever grow without dollars. Open Stack has always had a 
foundation and sponsors. Freebsd has a foundation and sponsors.. 
Sometimes you get lucky and people just do stuff for free., but you 
always get what you pay for..

Lk

On 4/25/17 11:35 AM, Tobias Oetiker wrote:
> Folks,
>
> so if you would rather have someone maintain omnios fulltime than relying on
> 'the community' todo it for free, now is the time to come forward. Write down
> a line in our straw poll spreadsheet ...
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IyAI950a-JkPgRRLSezZm9-Rt8HkfO_nIkubd_m8d_0
>
> then we will see quickly in which direction this can go ...
>
> And when you write down that number, just think about how much time you save
> by just going `pkg update` and be done with it ... haven't you grown to love that ?
>
>
> cheers
> tobi
>
> ----- On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:11 PM, Linda Kateley lkateley at kateley.com wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> After reading everything I can in the last few days.. I have a couple
>> questions which I hope you can answer honestly.
>>
>> This announcement on the heals of a massive change in the freenas
>> community make me wonder if there is any "backroom" pressure coming to
>> companies supporting zfs?
>>
>> The other is ... Is your hosted environment divesting from omnios? If so
>> what os are you going to?
>>
>> As a consultant and supporter of all things openzfs just want to know
>> where the best safest places for my customers.
>>
>> And one short comment.. I have have been watching following you guys for
>> awhile now, and I never knew your hope or wish was for the community to
>> pick up omnios. This surprises me. I am sure they would have if they had
>> known.
>>
>> Thanks for everything you have done for this community
>>
>> Linda K
>>
>>
>> On 4/23/17 3:13 PM, Robert Treat wrote:
>>> Security updates are a little bit trickier than just pulling in
>>> general upstream changes, but I think the ideal scenario would be to
>>> form a group of interested people around the "security at omnios.org"
>>> label which would collaborate on fielding and producing security fixes
>>> for the project. Given we also have critical production systems
>>> running OmniOS (more than most I suspect), we will need to deal with
>>> security and bug fixes regardless, so we're happy to use those efforts
>>> to bootstrap things.
>>>
>>> Robert Treat
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Paul B. Henson <henson at acm.org> wrote:
>>>> As both a home hobbyist user of OmniOS and a paid support user of OmniOS at
>>>> my day job, I'd first like to thank you guys for putting together a great
>>>> operating system that has served me well over the years and I hope will
>>>> continue to do so.
>>>>
>>>> However, I would like to clarify your stance when you say you are
>>>> "suspending active development" and that r151022 will be the "final
>>>> release". Per your historical release cycle:
>>>>
>>>> https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/ReleaseCycle
>>>>
>>>> r151022 was to be an LTS release with security/bug fix support through H1
>>>> 2020. While there will be no further releases of OmniOS from OmniTI, will
>>>> you continue to back port fixes and fix issues in r151022 through that
>>>> timeline, or will it be released as is and then be up to the as yet
>>>> undeveloped community to do so? We currently have critical production
>>>> systems deployed, systems whose deployment was only approved by management
>>>> due to the availability of commercial support (the wisdom of such a
>>>> perspective we will not discuss), and this sudden development is potentially
>>>> going to leave us in quite a pickle. While I certainly can't dictate to you
>>>> how to run your business, it would have been much easier on your customers
>>>> had you made this announcement with the release of r151022, and coincided
>>>> the end of your support offering with the end of life of this last release.
>>>> Which also ideally would have provided time for an omnios community to have
>>>> developed and started producing their own releases before the last
>>>> officially supported omniti version reached sunset.
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: OmniOS-discuss [mailto:omnios-discuss-bounces at lists.omniti.com]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Robert Treat
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 7:07 AM
>>>>> To: omnios-discuss <omnios-discuss at lists.omniti.com>
>>>>> Subject: [OmniOS-discuss] The Future of OmniOS
>>>>>
>>>>> Five years ago, when we first launched OmniOS, we did it out of a
>>>>> direct need to push forward the OpenSolaris ecosystem that we had
>>>>> built into the core of several parts of our business. At the time, the
>>>>> illumos community was still rather new and taking direct control of
>>>>> our path forward was a solid next step; we had already built many of
>>>>> the pieces in-house that we needed to produce a complete operating
>>>>> system distribution, and our experiences with open sourcing software
>>>>> we worked on had been generally very good.
>>>>>
>>>>> While we didn't know quite what the reaction would be, there were two
>>>>> things internally that guided us as long term factors in our decision.
>>>>> First, as we have done for other open source software, we thought it
>>>>> made sense to offer commercial support for OmniOS, but there was no
>>>>> desire to "pivot" OmniTI to be an operating system vendor. We like the
>>>>> world of building and running high-scale software and infrastructure
>>>>> and that's where we wanted to stay. Hand in hand with that was the
>>>>> second idea, that while we felt it was important for us to take the
>>>>> first initial steps, in the long term we really would prefer that
>>>>> OmniOS become an open source project maintained by its community
>>>>> rather than remain as the open source product of a single commercial
>>>>> entity (think Debian vs Red Hat, if that helps).
>>>>>
>>>>> Five years later, we are proud to see that this software has been
>>>>> accepted by a wide group of companies and end users, and we think this
>>>>> has been a boon for the illumos community, who are the shoulders we
>>>>> build upon. When you see companies from all sectors and industry, both
>>>>> small and some orders of magnitude larger, using the technology you
>>>>> put forward to build even further; well, it's great to have an impact.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, even with the success we have had, there is one area we have
>>>>> failed to make progress on, which is the goal of making OmniOS
>>>>> community operated. There are many factors why this hasn't happened,
>>>>> but ultimately in five years of both ups and downs within OmniTI, I am
>>>>> left to conclude that if we are ever to change the nature of OmniOS,
>>>>> we need to take a radical approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, going forward, while some of our staff may continue
>>>>> contributing, OmniTI will be suspending active development of OmniOS.
>>>>> Our next release, currently in beta, will become the final release
>>>>> from OmniTI. We are currently going through steps to remove any build
>>>>> dependencies on OmniTI or its infrastructure, and we've made some
>>>>> steps towards determining what potential resources we currently
>>>>> control which could be turned over to an open source community should
>>>>> one emerge; for example, we can continue running OmniOS mailing lists
>>>>> from OmniTI, but would eventually like to see those transitioned to
>>>>> something operated by the community itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be clear, our goal is not to abandon OmniOS, but to divest OmniTI
>>>>> from the open source project in order to spur others to participate
>>>>> more. We still run quite a bit of infrastructure on OmniOS and expect
>>>>> to continue contributing, but the current model does not work for
>>>>> OmniTI nor do we believe it is healthy for the OmniOS community as a
>>>>> whole. Could this mean the end of OmniOS? We can't guarantee it won't.
>>>>> For that matter, recent user data shows that a majority of the
>>>>> community still uses OmniOS primarily as a storage solution, not a
>>>>> platform for high-scale web computing (which was our original intent),
>>>>> so even if a community does form, it could move the project in a
>>>>> direction that doesn't align with our needs. If that happens, we feel
>>>>> comfortable knowing there are several other strong illumos based
>>>>> options available. In the end, while this rip-the-band-aid-off
>>>>> approach is not without risk, it is one we feel is necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> We hope that most folks will respond to this not with fear but with
>>>>> the understanding that there is now an opportunity to build a broader,
>>>>> stronger community, and we look forward to working with others to make
>>>>> that a reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Treat
>>>>> CEO
>>>>> https://omniti.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OmniOS-discuss mailing list
>>>>> OmniOS-discuss at lists.omniti.com
>>>>> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OmniOS-discuss mailing list
>>> OmniOS-discuss at lists.omniti.com
>>> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> OmniOS-discuss mailing list
>> OmniOS-discuss at lists.omniti.com
>> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss